Women Lead: Stories from WTS

Nadine Lee: You're listening to Mobility in Motion, a podcast produced by Dallas Area Rapid Transit. I'm your host, Nadine Lee, President and CEO of DART.

What is it like for women who choose a career in transportation?

For me, it's been both gratifying and challenging.

On the challenging front, there are the same types of issues. I think that women encounter no matter what career you're in, no matter what industry you're in. It's the challenge of being seen, heard, listened to, and sometimes believed.

On the gratifying front, there is no other industry I can think of where every single day you impact the lives of so many people. And for me, that matters.

I wanted to get a sense of how other women who are leaders in the field think of their lives and careers. We set up an audio booth at the WTS International Conference in New Orleans.

We asked them about why they chose a career in transportation and what it's like being a woman in a field that has traditionally been dominated by men.

We spoke with dozens of amazing women from all parts of the industry. From research scientists to CEOs, it was an incredible experience and I walked away with so many insights. We don’t often get to reflect on what got us to where we are today, and it was really important for us to bring people back to why they even got into transit in the first place and what really shaped what they now do as a career.

For many of the women I met at the conference, that inspiration started with their first experiences with public transit.

Patricia Tice: I remember My very first train ride with my dad, it was just the coolest thing ever.

Oh gosh. And it was like a daddy daughter date.

I think I was maybe five years old and they're like, yay, we get to go on a train.

Susan Baldwin: My dad was a bus driver for the Detroit Department of Transportation. He actually retired from there after 30 years of service. As a child, I would go out and ride the bus with him. And it was exciting to me to see how people were being moved from one place to another. And, um, back when bus drivers were a well respected position, the gifts they would bring my dad, like cookies and cakes and just as an appreciation for being there for them to get where they needed to be.

Bonnie Shepherd: You know, I grew up as a little girl loving trains. But then I also wanted to learn how they operated. So the systems and the signals and the automatic traction control. Um, and then from there I ventured into aviation and I also ventured into tunnels. I love tunnels.

Sirisha Pillalamarri: Growing up in India, yes, I did ride public transit to school, to colleges. Uh, most of the stories, uh, revolve around going to college and coming back, uh, with friends.

Bonnie Shepherd: There are many different tunnels. There's water, there's rail, there's passenger, there's horse tunnels, there's people tunnels.

Love it all.

Sirisha Pillalamarri: One time a bus broke down in the middle of summer season, so we had to, we were stranded. Um, until another bus came to rescue us.

Melissa Holguin: My mom was a single mom. So I really was raised a lot by my grandparents and my grandma actually never drove. Um, so we rode the bus everywhere. And she was a bus rider. And kind of a sad story behind that is actually the reason for her never driving was because, uh, her. Dad was tragically killed by a bus in Mexico City, and that really traumatized her. But that was the reason why she never drove.

Emma Huang: So I rode public transit when I grew up in South Pasadena, California. And I remember when the Gold Line came. And as high schoolers, we really liked it because we didn't have to rely on our parents to take us anywhere.

Dee Leggett: I grew up in rural West Tennessee, so we really didn't have, um, public transportation. We had kind of elderly and disabled service, but we didn't have a lot of fixed route service or definitely didn't have any rural service.

Patricia Tice: I wanted transit so bad as a kid, but I lived out in the country. Like literally on a farm and, and there wasn't any transit to speak of.

Faith Walker: We lived in the county of Henrico County outside of Richmond. So we didn't even have a bus that was accessible to us.

Dee Leggett: So it wasn't until I moved to Texas in, 2007 that I really got introduced to mass transportation.

Faith Walker: Now in my adult life, I've absolutely relied on public transportation.

Nadine Lee:  I found it so interesting that for some of these women, it was the experience of not having access to public transportation that really made them appreciate how transformative it can be.

So for me, I started out my career designing highways and roads for a consulting firm right out of college and I found that I was incredibly embarrassed to tell people what I was doing. At that time I already knew that building more roads wasn't the answer for the future.

Um, and so I was very apologetic. About what I did for a living

But then I had this opportunity to move to Denver and work in public transportation and really work on designing a light rail system. And I was so excited about that. And when I would tell people what I did for a living then, people's eyes would light up and everybody was like, that is so cool that you're actually building a light rail line. And so I knew then that that was the way I needed to go for my career because it was something that I could really get excited about. I was passionate about how public transportation could help communities and help people.

And so from that point forward, I just never looked back.

I was very curious about how these women found a career in public transit. So I asked them, what was your first job in transit and what made you stay?

Susan Baldwin: When I graduated from high school, I started working for the Detroit Department of Transportation, actually as a checker. Um, it was kind of a secret spy position where I would go out and ride the bus and write up reports on how the operator acted. Did he collect fares? Was he polite? Did he follow traffic rules? Eventually worked my way up, into the technology department and started working with different areas implementing projects, implementing technology

Carlisha Lyles: So I started as a bus operator, um, it will be 20 years in August. And I was just, you know, just looking for a stable job. I was a young mom, just needed a stable job and just being able to take care of my family. So years went by, I don't know how they went by so fast and I started to take advantage of their training classes and stuff for career development.

Dee Leggett: So, my background's in marketing and communications and one day my boss said, “Hey, we just want a contract with the Tennessee Department of Transportation. I need someone to oversee the public engagement effort for the statewide long range transportation plan.” I didn't know anything about transportation planning at the time, but I knew about public engagement and just raised my hand, volunteered and said, “Hey, I'll do it.”

And with that, um, I got into, into transportation.

Emma Huang: I started working in transit because I was in grad school at UCLA, and I saw an application for a fellowship at the Office of Extraordinary Innovation at LA Metro.

I had zero transit or transportation experience but I really like the name of the department. I thought it sounded really cool. So I applied for it and they were really interested in having someone who could do a lot of research and policy analysis.

And they were not worried that I had zero transit experience. So I started working for the innovation office as a research fellow and got hooked.

Nadine Lee: So when I moved to Denver to work on a light rail project, I was in the private sector. And I knew at that time that in order to be a decision maker and a real leader, I was going to have to move over to the public sector because that's where the decisions were made.

So, as soon as the Fast Tracks initiative passed in Denver, I applied for a job at RTD, the Regional Transportation District. And I was lucky enough to get a job there, and that really established the foundation for where I am today.

It was at RTD that I had the opportunity to attend the WTS Leadership Program back in 2004, um, which was transformative for me because it gave me all kinds of confidence that I could do this job and I could do it well.

From there, I had opportunities to go overseas and learn about transit in other countries, mostly Southeast Asia, um, that was also foundational because it started me thinking about the operating side of transit.

And then I worked on a project at RTD. The U.S. 36 Bus Rapid Transit project now known as the Flatiron Flyer and working on the bus rapid transit project gave me an appreciation for the bus side of the house. And I knew that the bus is so much more important in some ways than the rail side, because bus is the workhorse of every agency.

And so that became a really important piece of my portfolio was to be able to bring attention to the bus side. So after working at RTD for about 10 years, I had this incredible opportunity to work in the Office of Extraordinary Innovation at LA Metro.

And from there, Phil Washington asked me to be the Chief of Staff And that's what set me up to be a CEO at DART.

Like so many industries, transportation has long been a male dominated field. That can make it a challenge for women to get ahead, but many of the women I talked to felt that being a woman can also be an advantage. So I asked them about that.

What are the qualities you bring to the job as a woman, and how did that help you succeed?

Tracy Wiyrick: I think for women, we're used to having these roles where we're planning everything. And historically they were planning for the home. So you're doing the kids, the dinner planning, the, the weekly activities, and we've developed these skills of being project management and planning.

So it was easy, I think for me transitioned to also carry that into a professional role also, because just managing more projects, more people.

Emma Huang: I think so much of my work style is probably shaped by being a woman.

Part of my job at LA Metro when I first started out as a research fellow was asking a lot of questions and trying to understand innovations that were being piloted in other places. And so that just really required having a kind of innate sense of curiosity, but also an ability to kind of, um, connect with people of all of life.

Susan Baldwin: Women are more patient. We're more nurturing. We're more, we're kinder, right? So we're, we're not pushers. So it makes it easy.

Nadine Lee: Well, and you clearly are somebody who has a tremendous amount of patience. Um, do you think that is something that came naturally or have you had to work on that over

Susan Baldwin: Um, I'm a woman.

Nadine Lee: Nuff said. Yeah. Yeah.

Emma Huang: I think that as women we're often expected to be the one that makes the other person feel comfortable. And so that was a skill that, you know, I was really kind of familiar with. And I still use that today, right? Like if you're in a contentious meeting, I think that sometimes it's the woman that's expected to be the one that's making everyone feel okay.

Patricia Tice: Every single project, I'm bringing the perspective of a mom. I mean, you just look at these kids sometimes — darting — I saw a study once, darting fatalities have this huge spike with 10 to 12 year old boys. And you know, if you're just looking at it as a researcher, you're like, well, why would a 10 year old be more in danger?

Oh, a mom will tell you a mom knows. I mean, a 10 year old boy is squirrel prone. He kicks a ball in the street. He's not going to care whether somebody's coming down that street, he's going to go get the ball. And this is why we have problems because. Ten year old boys are squirrely.

When you bring that perspective to the work, you begin to realize, oh, there's very subtle, very human perspectives that are easy to ignore, um, as an engineer.

I mean, we think of these things in a very technical way. It's all formulas and math. And no, we've got people using these systems. You can't do transportation without recognizing the people that are involved.

Emma Huang: I think that what makes for a high quality transit experience is based on what I feel like as a woman we need in order to feel safe when we're using the system. Um, and so that might be something that if you haven't experienced it directly, you may not, it may not be top of mind for you when you're making transit decisions.

Patricia Tice: From a pragmatic standpoint, I chose very early on that my family was going to come first in front of my work.

But that meant that I intentionally tried to make myself so valuable that they would want me under any terms, period. And I thought I was going to have to do something spectacular to do that. When I quit to raise my kids, and three months later, my boss came back and said, Hey, help. I don't care how you give me the help. You can bring the baby. I don't even care.

I realized it didn't have to be world changing. I just had to be good.

Nadine Lee: I just had to be good. I love that. So many of the women I talked to at the WTS Conference were in high level positions: CEOs of transportation authorities around the country. So I asked them, what advice do you have for other women trying to make it in this field and move up the ladder?

Thao Tran: I think the biggest piece of advice that I would give. Is ..

Patricia Tice: do the things that nobody else wants to do.

Thao Tran: don't be afraid to take up space.

Renee Koester: Don't go into tech,

Tracy Wiyrick: Don't let them tell you no.

Renee Koester: Come into transportation, because we need you, and you have a voice that will blow us all away

Patricia Tice: And I'm not talking about filling coffee or taking notes at meetings. This is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the hardcore skills that will get you paid, things that people are willing to pay for.

Dee Leggett: The biggest advice that I give women is to, to claim your seat, to claim your opportunity. You know, there's a lot of data out there that talks about how women are less likely to, you know, be shrewd negotiators, negotiate for the salaries that they want or negotiate for the positions that they want.

We seem to kind of, you know, hold back where our male counterparts, you know, pursue opportunities that they're not even remotely qualified for.

Patricia Tice: When you get very, very good at a task that nobody else knows how to do, you make yourself irreplaceable. And the capital that you build when you do that is control.

For women, control is everything. You know, if you're going to be able to have a lifestyle where you can care for your family and your work and your social life and all of those things, you need to be able to have control of your career.

Emma Huang: I would give two pieces of advice. The first would be, um, to have a really open mind.

Ruby Daniels: Remain curious, be active, if there's something that you like, find out as much information as you can.

Melissa Holguin: I think it's just being comfortable with not maybe knowing all of the information, right, and having the courage to speak up and ask questions. 

Rachelle Antoine: As a woman, my background is in social work. I never knew that I had a space there if someone did not tell me that it does exist.

So I really want to take this opportunity to say, whatever the space is within the mobility industry or a transportation industry, you have a space and you have a voice with any type of background or degree

Melissa Holguin: I think a lot of times when I'm sitting in the room, it does kind of blow my mind that, you know, we are still predominantly men. And I think that, um, there's still a perception of a woman's role in the meeting.

I think just being able to be confident enough to like, maybe you don't have all the information or the answers, but, being able to push that bar of asking the questions that, you know, need to be asked, right? And it's okay, you know, if you need to ask questions, because sometimes we stay quiet and we don't ask the questions that need to be heard.

Dottie Watkins: We were raised to be a bit deferential, to care for others, to just be okay with that being our role in the world.

And so, sometimes you just have to fake it and have the confidence and say, I'm putting myself out there and then go sit in your car and cry if you have to. That's okay.

Dee Leggett: I have a story that I talk about claiming your crown. Like, don't, don't be ashamed that you're an ambitious person.

Ambition is not a bad thing. It is an empowering thing to pursue. Um, you know, I got into transportation because I asked for an opportunity. I asked my boss to allow me to work on the Tennessee Department of Transportation Contract, even though I didn't have any transportation experience. Had it not been for me pursuing that opportunity unapologetically, I wouldn't be chief development officer at Dallas Area Rapid Transit.

Thao Tran: Do it unapologetically, do it with your whole heart, do it with your whole might because you have worked so hard.

Susan Baldwin: you can be or do anything you want to be or do. All you got to do is believe in yourself. Do the best you can do because you never know who's watching, right?

But opportunities come when you least expect them. So never give up.

Nadine Lee: Never give up.

Wonderful words to end on.

When I get asked what advice I have for women working in the industry, I always tell people to be unapologetically who you are. I think that each individual brings so much to the table, so much creativity, new ideas. I think people should not have to conform to someone else's idea of what a leader looks like and how they act.

I think it's great that the women you heard from today are all individuals and they're all special in their own right.

I'm excited for the future of this industry because of all the amazing women we have coming up through the ranks and leading the charge.

I want to thank all the women who sat down and talked with us at WTS.

You heard from Rachelle Antoine, Susan Baldwin, Britteny Gick, Emma Huang, Melissa Holguin, Stephanie Koeninger, Renee Koester, Dee Leggett, Sirisha Pillalamarri, Carlisha Lyles, Bonnie Shepherd, Patricia Tice, Faith Walker, Dottie Watkins, Tracy Wiyrick, and Thao Tran.

This has been Mobility in Motion. I'm your host, Nadine Lee.

We'd love to hear from you. If you'd like to share your feedback with us, please email us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by The Glue and Jim Gates, edited by Michael May with music by BC Campbell.

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